Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/23/1994 08:35 AM House FIN
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 23, 1994
8:35 A.M.
TAPE HFC 94 - 77, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94 - 77, Side 2, #000 - end.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 8:35 A.M.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson Representative Hoffman
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Martin
Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Navarre
Representative Brown Representative Parnell
Representative Grussendorf Representative Therriault
Representative Foster
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Cynthia Toohey; Juanita Hensley, Chief Driver
Services, Division of Motor Vehicles, Department of Public
Safety; Margo Knuth, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal
Division, Department of Law.
SUMMARY
HB 299 An Act relating to education programs on
consumption of alcohol and to revocation of a
driver's license for illegal consumption of
alcohol; and providing for an effective date.
CS HB 299 was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendations" and a House Finance Committee
Letter of Intent with a fiscal note by the
Department of Public Safety and a zero fiscal note
by the Department of Law dated 3/09/94.
HOUSE BILL 299
"An Act relating to education programs on consumption
of alcohol and to revocation of a driver's license for
illegal consumption of alcohol; and providing for an
effective date."
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY advised that HB 299 is
referred to as "Use it-Lose It" legislation stating that
dangerous association of controlled substances and alcohol
1
or controlled substances cause a reduction of mental and
physical capabilities and can severely impair one's ability
to drive in a responsible manner. HB 299 would provide the
Department of Public Safety a tool to help discourage youth
from starting the dangerous and often fatal association of
controlled substances and alcohol with driving.
Under HB 299, a minor who is old enough to have either a
permit or license to drive would lose that license, permit
or privilege if the said minor possessed, used, or consumed
a controlled substance or alcohol. Revocation would be
through administrative proceedings.
Co-Chair MacLean questioned the cost for first time
offenders. Representative Toohey noted there would be a
ninety (90) day revocation and a $250 dollar charge.
JUANITA HENSLEY, CHIEF DRIVER SERVICES, DIVISION OF MOTOR
VEHICLES, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, reiterated that the
legislation would provide an administrative revocation and
the cost would be $250 dollar reinstatement fee and loss of
the license for ninety (90) days for first time offenders.
No civil fine would be assessed. Treatment would be paid
for individually and would be required through an action
taken by DFYS or through the Court System. The legislation
would exempt the offender from the requirement to purchase
special insurance.
Representative Parnell asked the constitutional reason for
including the "findings" section to the legislation.
MARGO KNUTH, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL DIVISION,
DEPARTMENT OF LAW, replied that there is not a
constitutional requirement that the "findings" be included,
although in some legislation these sections help to clarify
existing law. Representative Toohey added that the
"findings" section would lay the ground work for the
proposed legislation.
Representative Grussendorf noted his concern with the
authority granted to "peace officers" as referenced on Page
2, Line 5. Ms. Knuth pointed out that a right to appeal
would be available to the offender. Initial action taken by
a peace officer would be the same in any case, although
there will be an administrative procedure and that a neutral
person would act on behalf of the Executive Branch in a
quasi judicial function. She added that there are many
process rights which accompany judicial proceedings and
which would provide safe guards within the system.
Co-Chair MacLean asked what evidence would be used to
establish guilt. Ms. Knuth explained that DMV would need
2
testimony or an affidavit from the peace officer describing
their observation of how the offense was committed.
Discussion followed among Committee members regarding the
"evidence of guilt".
Representative Brown referenced Page 2, Line 5, noting her
concern that through the proposed legislation "due process"
would not be provided to young people. She disagreed that a
young person should be cited upon the word of one peace
officer.
Representative Parnell MOVED Amendment #1 which would delete
the "findings" section, Page 1, Lines 5-14 and Page 2, Lines
1-2. Representative Brown OBJECTED, stating that Amendment
effect the findings would propose an increase to alcohol
excise tax. She added that action recommended in the
legislation has had low impact on youths in other states.
The highest and most valuable incentive to encourage youths
to stop "use" would be to increase the tax on alcohol, a tax
which has not been raised since 1983.
Representative Brown WITHDREW THE OBJECTION to adopting
Amendment #1. There being NO further OBJECTION, it was
adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #2 and
explained the changes. [Copy on file]. Representative
Grussendorf suggested splitting the amendment.
Representative Brown MOVED to divide Amendment #2. There
were NO OBJECTIONS to dividing the question. Representative
Brown MOVED the portion of the amendment to Page 2, Line 8.
There being NO OBJECTIONS, that portion was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED the second portion of Amendment
WITHDREW the previous MOTION and MOVED to divide portion #2
of Amendment #2. There being NO OBJECTION, it was divided.
She stated the new Portion #2 would contain all material
recommended in Amendment #2 which would affect Page 3 of HB
299. Representative Brown MOVED the amended portion #2 of
Amendment #2.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-77, Side 2).
Representative Parnell OBJECTED to the amended portion #2 of
Amendment #2. He asked the repercussions for offenders who
currently have to obtain treatment for conditions of parole
and who live in an area which does not provide that service.
Ms. Knuth understood that there is some screening available
everywhere. Ms. Hensley replied that there are sufficient
alternative treatments such as A.A. and N.A. programs in the
3
village areas and added that the Department currently is
working on a correspondence course for those offenders
needing rehabilitation. Discussion followed among Committee
members regarding approved programs for offenders living in
areas where little is available.
Representative Parnell MOVED TO AMEND Portion #2, Amendment
rehabilitation or alcohol education is unavailable".
Representative Hanley OBJECTED to the entire Portion #2 of
Amendment #2. He thought that the Department should be
given discretion to create guidelines.
Ms. Hensley remarked that currently, it is a requirement for
an offender convicted of a drunk driving offense to be
enrolled in, complete and pay for their alcohol program.
Every area has some type of program available.
Representative Brown argued the requirement that the
offender should be required to pay for the rehab course,
pointing out that the State does provide many of those
services. Ms. Hensley replied that the House Judiciary
Committee added the clause requesting payment by the
offender. Representative Brown WITHDREW THE MOTION to adopt
Portion #2, Amendment #2. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
withdrawn.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to adopt Amendment #3. [Copy on
file]. Discussion followed among Committee members
regarding the correct wording of a language technicality
which would identify when the $250 dollar charge would be
implemented.
Ms. Knuth requested amending Amendment #3 by inserting "or
limited" following "revoked" in Section (A) and Section (B).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED the recommended language change to
Amendment #3. There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
There being NO OBJECTION to Amendment #3, it was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #4. [Copy on
file]. Representative Therriault OBJECTED advising that the
"findings" in Section #1 had been deleted in Amendment #1.
Representative Brown WITHDREW THE MOTION to adopt Amendment
Committee Letter of Intent. There being NO OBJECTION to
withdrawing the amendment, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #5. [Copy on file].
The amendment would insert a new subsection to Page 3, after
Line 27 which would read:
"(h) The department may waive the provisions of (g) of
this section if a person who is required to obtain drug
4
or alcoholism treatment resides in an area where drug
rehabilitation or alcoholism education is unavailable."
She added that the amendment would also include the
insertion of new language to Page 3, Line 19. There being
NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
Representative Parnell MOVED to report CS HB 299 (FIN) out
of Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. Representative Martin OBJECTED
for purposes of discussion. Discussion followed among
Committee members regarding the provisions which had been
added and would change the legislation from dealing
specifically with juveniles to legislation addressing all
alcohol and drug offenders. R. Martin WITHDREW THE
OBJECTION following the discussion.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #4 as a House
Finance Committee Letter of Intent and requested that it be
included with the legislation. [Copy on file].
Representative Therriault OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Hanley, Hoffman, Navarre,
Brown, Foster, MacLean.
OPPOSED: Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson.
The MOTION PASSED (7-4).
There being NO FURTHER OBJECTION to moving the bill from
Committee, it was so ordered.
CS HB 299 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendations" and including the House Finance Committee
Letter of Intent and with the zero fiscal note by the
Department of Law dated 3/09/94, and a fiscal note by the
Department of Public Safety.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:55 A.M.
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 23, 1994
8:35 A.M.
TAPE HFC 94 - 77, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94 - 77, Side 2, #000 - end.
CALL TO ORDER
5
Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 8:35 A.M.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson Representative Hoffman
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Martin
Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Navarre
Representative Brown Representative Parnell
Representative Grussendorf Representative Therriault
Representative Foster
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Cynthia Toohey; Juanita Hensley, Chief Driver
Services, Division of Motor Vehicles, Department of Public
Safety; Margo Knuth, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal
Division, Department of Law.
SUMMARY
HB 299 An Act relating to education programs on
consumption of alcohol and to revocation of a
driver's license for illegal consumption of
alcohol; and providing for an effective date.
CS HB 299 was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendations" and a House Finance Committee
Letter of Intent with a fiscal note by the
Department of Public Safety and a zero fiscal note
by the Department of Law dated 3/09/94.
HOUSE BILL 299
"An Act relating to education programs on consumption
of alcohol and to revocation of a driver's license for
illegal consumption of alcohol; and providing for an
effective date."
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY advised that HB 299 is
referred to as "Use it-Lose It" legislation stating that
dangerous association of controlled substances and alcohol
or controlled substances cause a reduction of mental and
physical capabilities and can severely impair one's ability
to drive in a responsible manner. HB 299 would provide the
Department of Public Safety a tool to help discourage youth
from starting the dangerous and often fatal association of
controlled substances and alcohol with driving.
Under HB 299, a minor who is old enough to have either a
permit or license to drive would lose that license, permit
or privilege if the said minor possessed, used, or consumed
6
a controlled substance or alcohol. Revocation would be
through administrative proceedings.
Co-Chair MacLean questioned the cost for first time
offenders. Representative Toohey noted there would be a
ninety (90) day revocation and a $250 dollar charge.
JUANITA HENSLEY, CHIEF DRIVER SERVICES, DIVISION OF MOTOR
VEHICLES, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, reiterated that the
legislation would provide an administrative revocation and
the cost would be $250 dollar reinstatement fee and loss of
the license for ninety (90) days for first time offenders.
No civil fine would be assessed. Treatment would be paid
for individually and would be required through an action
taken by DFYS or through the Court System. The legislation
would exempt the offender from the requirement to purchase
special insurance.
Representative Parnell asked the constitutional reason for
including the "findings" section to the legislation.
MARGO KNUTH, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL DIVISION,
DEPARTMENT OF LAW, replied that there is not a
constitutional requirement that the "findings" be included,
although in some legislation these sections help to clarify
existing law. Representative Toohey added that the
"findings" section would lay the ground work for the
proposed legislation.
Representative Grussendorf noted his concern with the
authority granted to "peace officers" as referenced on Page
2, Line 5. Ms. Knuth pointed out that a right to appeal
would be available to the offender. Initial action taken by
a peace officer would be the same in any case, although
there will be an administrative procedure and that a neutral
person would act on behalf of the Executive Branch in a
quasi judicial function. She added that there are many
process rights which accompany judicial proceedings and
which would provide safe guards within the system.
Co-Chair MacLean asked what evidence would be used to
establish guilt. Ms. Knuth explained that DMV would need
testimony or an affidavit from the peace officer describing
their observation of how the offense was committed.
Discussion followed among Committee members regarding the
"evidence of guilt".
Representative Brown referenced Page 2, Line 5, noting her
concern that through the proposed legislation "due process"
would not be provided to young people. She disagreed that a
young person should be cited upon the word of one peace
officer.
7
Representative Parnell MOVED Amendment #1 which would delete
the "findings" section, Page 1, Lines 5-14 and Page 2, Lines
1-2. Representative Brown OBJECTED, stating that Amendment
effect the findings would propose an increase to alcohol
excise tax. She added that action recommended in the
legislation has had low impact on youths in other states.
The highest and most valuable incentive to encourage youths
to stop "use" would be to increase the tax on alcohol, a tax
which has not been raised since 1983.
Representative Brown WITHDREW THE OBJECTION to adopting
Amendment #1. There being NO further OBJECTION, it was
adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #2 and
explained the changes. [Copy on file]. Representative
Grussendorf suggested splitting the amendment.
Representative Brown MOVED to divide Amendment #2. There
were NO OBJECTIONS to dividing the question. Representative
Brown MOVED the portion of the amendment to Page 2, Line 8.
There being NO OBJECTIONS, that portion was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED the second portion of Amendment
WITHDREW the previous MOTION and MOVED to divide portion #2
of Amendment #2. There being NO OBJECTION, it was divided.
She stated the new Portion #2 would contain all material
recommended in Amendment #2 which would affect Page 3 of HB
299. Representative Brown MOVED the amended portion #2 of
Amendment #2.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-77, Side 2).
Representative Parnell OBJECTED to the amended portion #2 of
Amendment #2. He asked the repercussions for offenders who
currently have to obtain treatment for conditions of parole
and who live in an area which does not provide that service.
Ms. Knuth understood that there is some screening available
everywhere. Ms. Hensley replied that there are sufficient
alternative treatments such as A.A. and N.A. programs in the
village areas and added that the Department currently is
working on a correspondence course for those offenders
needing rehabilitation. Discussion followed among Committee
members regarding approved programs for offenders living in
areas where little is available.
Representative Parnell MOVED TO AMEND Portion #2, Amendment
rehabilitation or alcohol education is unavailable".
Representative Hanley OBJECTED to the entire Portion #2 of
8
Amendment #2. He thought that the Department should be
given discretion to create guidelines.
Ms. Hensley remarked that currently, it is a requirement for
an offender convicted of a drunk driving offense to be
enrolled in, complete and pay for their alcohol program.
Every area has some type of program available.
Representative Brown argued the requirement that the
offender should be required to pay for the rehab course,
pointing out that the State does provide many of those
services. Ms. Hensley replied that the House Judiciary
Committee added the clause requesting payment by the
offender. Representative Brown WITHDREW THE MOTION to adopt
Portion #2, Amendment #2. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
withdrawn.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to adopt Amendment #3. [Copy on
file]. Discussion followed among Committee members
regarding the correct wording of a language technicality
which would identify when the $250 dollar charge would be
implemented.
Ms. Knuth requested amending Amendment #3 by inserting "or
limited" following "revoked" in Section (A) and Section (B).
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED the recommended language change to
Amendment #3. There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
There being NO OBJECTION to Amendment #3, it was adopted.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #4. [Copy on
file]. Representative Therriault OBJECTED advising that the
"findings" in Section #1 had been deleted in Amendment #1.
Representative Brown WITHDREW THE MOTION to adopt Amendment
Committee Letter of Intent. There being NO OBJECTION to
withdrawing the amendment, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown MOVED Amendment #5. [Copy on file].
The amendment would insert a new subsection to Page 3, after
Line 27 which would read:
"(h) The department may waive the provisions of (g) of
this section if a person who is required to obtain drug
or alcoholism treatment resides in an area where drug
rehabilitation or alcoholism education is unavailable."
She added that the amendment would also include the
insertion of new language to Page 3, Line 19. There being
NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.
Representative Parnell MOVED to report CS HB 299 (FIN) out
of Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. Representative Martin OBJECTED
9
for purposes of discussion. Discussion followed among
Committee members regarding the provisions which had been
added and would change the legislation from dealing
specifically with juveniles to legislation addressing all
alcohol and drug offenders. R. Martin WITHDREW THE
OBJECTION following the discussion.
Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #4 as a House
Finance Committee Letter of Intent and requested that it be
included with the legislation. [Copy on file].
Representative Therriault OBJECTED.
A roll call was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Grussendorf, Hanley, Hoffman, Navarre,
Brown, Foster, MacLean.
OPPOSED: Martin, Parnell, Therriault, Larson.
The MOTION PASSED (7-4).
There being NO FURTHER OBJECTION to moving the bill from
Committee, it was so ordered.
CS HB 299 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no
recommendations" and including the House Finance Committee
Letter of Intent and with the zero fiscal note by the
Department of Law dated 3/09/94, and a fiscal note by the
Department of Public Safety.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:55 A.M.
10
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